Here is the link to suicide forum: copy and paste http://www.suicideforum.com/index.php
Let's be considerate here and not joke around about serious issues. You can look around, but will need a member login to read certain posts. Even though there are moderators, some people still read those posts that may be triggering and are eventually deleted.
Also, for the people not in class today, the abortion debate group has changed it's debate to the existence of god.
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Even though this is not my debate subject, I would like to chime in on "the existence of God", and the effects it has had on mankind.
First of all, I believe that the belief in one God or another may have had as many negative effects on past societies as it has positive. Granted,the belief of God(s)usually results in an increase in morals for a society , which is all good.People must treat each other civilized for a society to work.These morals usually consist of rules such as "don't steal, don't murder, treat other men well. ect." This is all reasonable stuff that everyone probably believes in.
However if you look at the negative effects religion (the belief in God(s)),has had and still has on our world, we may have been better off without it. The list of negative effects is considerable.First of all, I dare to say that most wars prior to 1800 were either over conquest or religion.That is a lot of death and destruction for the sake of God.The list of religiuos conflicts is considerable. Unfortunately, I don't have about 8 hours to list them all, if it is even possible. Here are a few.Further back in history we have the 30 yrs war, the crusades, the inquisition,the Romans persecution of Christians, the persecution of the Jews by everyone-forever, or how about the Mayans and Aztecs lovely practice of human sacrifice to their Gods(and then they were eventually slaughtered by the Spanish because they were non-christian savages).More recently,the ethnic (religion based, kill the Muslims)) cleansing in the former Yugoslavia,or the Muslim's hate for Americal infidels, or all of the Arab nations hate for Israel, or worst of all, the slaughter of 6 million Jews in WWII.The list is never ending.
I don't know if there is or isn't a God. But as the saying goes, "with a friend like that, who needs an enemy", just substitute God for friend and devil for enemy. Hope I haven't offended anybody.I do believe that if everyone just treated each other the way they we would like to be treated, we would all be just fine.
All I can say about the suicide forum, is "how depressing".. I will definitely go home after work and hug my wife and son and be thankful for everything we have.
P.S....I just don't know how anybody could be a psychiatrist and deal with this kind of stuff on an every day basis. My blessings to them and their patients.
The existence of god is one of my favorite topics to debate mainly because it involves an argument of logic (proof, positive testable hypothesis, documented and peer reviwed) and something that flies in the face of that (faith). I love the "you cannot reason a person out of a position they have not reasoned themselves into" axiom when this argument is presented. The entire idea of an invisible man (men, women, pantheon, gym membership) of super beings that watch and protect, create and demand worship is of no use to myself. It carries the same amount of beleivability as the tooth fairy, santa claus, Nessie or Sasquatch. People often use and or quote directly from the bible or whatever holy book of their religion as proof of that religions tenets or gods. Such circular logic only convolutes the points that are attempting to be said. The description of the Abrahamic god, to me, a perfectly adept way to describe a typical stalker. Never showing himself, promises of undying perfect love, ephemeral and most of the time enigmatic clues and cryptic messages. All under the guise of love and happiness for all!
If you love me as much as you claim, show yourself, engage me in concourse, prove to me that your cryptic, ancient messages mean more than some preachy book about how I should act. I despise the notion that people would be without morals randomly and wantonly killing one another without biblically inspired notions of moral conduct. The whole first half of the Bible (The old testament to you gentiles) is full of contradictory and often bloody edicts for how people should live. The New Testament is nothing more than hearsay and second hand accounts of Jesus. While it is historically appropriate to say that a Jesus of Nazareth did exist, evidence of his existence is not evidence of his divinity. At most, to myself, he was a hippy with some fanciful ideas that angered both the established Jewish house of religion and the Romans for stirring up the populace. This is basis for a religion? I see no difference between a cult and a religion though I would suppose that most religious people do. I have read The Bible, The Quran and the first of many Hindu holy books out of sheer curiosity. Neither are very beleivable, but are a fun read. Don't expect me to abide by their rules of conduct without hard testable proof.
Just as a note for students wondering what works as a post for credit for the 1C class, note that the post here and each comment all work well.
Good work, folks!
I don't know what is the aim of this forum or the notion of the site author. whether he or she is try to talk someone out of the suicide attempt, to talk someone into a suicide attempt, or just providing information to people who want to commit suicide. which i think the information will cause or stimulate the attempt or the suicidal feeling. Reading some of the posts today, especially the SF rule, I have a feeling that this forum is not constructive at all; and of course, I am assuming suicide is bad.
First, it is not just a regular website, it is a forum, which every with an account can contribute and express their opinion. Everyone means people with no knowledge of the subject and people who do not care of the life of the suicidal person. And second, I do not feel that people who posted comments in the forum is really suicidal. This maybe just my gut feeling that I have no evidences at all, but will a person who want to kill himself and possibly in a very depressing mental state hang out in the forum put their comments on and let people give suggestion. Maybe they will, or maybe when they go to the emotion support part, they will feel better somehow. However, let’s consider the potential harm that one member says something stupid, and accidentally lead someone’s death.
Of course, there are rules that regulate the activity. Like thee first rule “[…] do NOT encourage self harm, eating disorders, violence against others or suicide. […]” But at the same time when a user posted “Prison or Suicide” http://www.suicideforum.com/showthread.php?t=35606, most responders in the post say that death is a better choice than prison. This directly violates the first rule and at the time when I am writing this, it is still there.
The first line of the SF rule board is “If you are in immediate danger of harming yourself or someone else, contact a friend, family member, counsellor, helpline, local hospital or the police for immediate help.” I think it is very true, and more to that talking about suicide on a forum is really a bad idea, it is worse opening a forum for that. The forum cannot help anyone at all because they really are not professional.
The forum IS quite depressing, but I don't agree that one can use their own predetermined set of biases or morals to unilaterally state that suicide is bad. I can state with certainty that someone that is overall a healthy, relatively young individual is suffering from a severe mental defect if they are considering suicide as an option. WITHIN REASON. All cases are not the same. I must say with exact certainty that I do not agree with the assumption that people stating as their own personal preference, using the example posted above, that suicide is prefferable to prison as violating that forums posting guidelines. They are not advocating and giving directions on how or why they should hurt themselves but stating that they would prefer death to prison. Especially if they are a competent forum they would active and just moderators to strike such behavior.
Suicide, or in my example, euthanasia, is fine by me as long as the person can prove they are of sound mind, legally okay, and are currently suffering either from the detriments of old age or a debilitating incurable ailment. Why make this person suffer the last years of their life if they want to end it? Euthunasia, while leaving their loved ones out in the cold, is at most selfish, if it is that persons best interest, why should we cram our morals down their throat and keep them alive against their will? Such an idea infuriates me, but current laws are not currently on my side. I blame those puritans who founded us. But my views I admit are in the minority.
I am WHOLLY against those whiny tweens that are "bummed out" by school and their most recent breakup that want to "end the pain". It's called a spine, you should look into it. I have no sympathy for those posts that I read. To be thinking of something like ending a life that young is laughable. Tell mommy to tuck you in extra tight so you feel loved.
I think there are two types of suicidal people. The first group includes those, who actually do commit suicide. (Research showed that these are usually men). They usually live a normal life and do not really appear to be suicidal. They simply kill themselves one day and maybe leave a note that might even tell the decendants that they don't have any fault.
The second group involves those, who actually verbalize or in some way, communicate their suicidal thoughts. In their case (usually women) they want attention, love, warmth, comfort and most importantly understanding. They also tend to attempt suicide, but do not commit it. I think it is crucial for all of us to keep our eyes peeled and we have to actively listen! Those are the one that are willing to find another way, change their thinking patterns or cope with past experiences.
In any case, it is horrible that someone is willing to take his/her life, because there is no obvious way out of misery.
I do believe that these people can be helped, but it definitely takes a lot of energy and work.
Life is so amazing and beautiful and each of us should have a right to take part in this.
Was the statistically proven point of most suicide victims (victims being the operative word here) a jab at men in general or was it pertinent to your point? It seems that half of your argument is that men are selfish and women want something warm and fuzzy with their suicides. How is that at all constructive?
A point that must be stated over and over again is that no, life is not all rainbows and kittens for every person on the earth. It is useless and quite selfish to state that you life is great and beautiful as a basis for reasoning to keep everyone alive against their will. Though, you have the weight of the world behind your argument because I am almost sure that anyone that even shows the least bit of interest in committing suicide will be declared mentally incompetent and stuck in a padded room without objects deemed harmful.
The stigma of these people is hard. Because it is mostly mental, other people who have not yet experienced such pain do not know what to think. People who are suicidal generally are more isolated and with such judgement they isolate themselves more. They feel as if they're not fit to be in 'societal norms' and the viscious cycle continues. It's quite sad when you look at how many members there are, how many people who have actually gone to a suicide forum, hopefully not just for an english class. There are so many people who have felt to low and desperate that they needed to find something, something to help them stay alive. Did you know that more people each day then the number of people that died in the 9-11 attacks? For every one person who commits suicide, there are 400 reported that attempted suicide. Suicide is a big problem in the world. I think if we all don't open our arms and help those in need, that it will continue to be a leading cause of death.
I don't agree with you that my point has to be restated.Referring to the book "Abnormal Psychology" 13th edition, Butcher, Mineka, Hooley; page 268-275 you will see these facts. I never meant to say anything that stereotypes or generalized men and women.
Suicidal thoughts are usually based on some kind of dissatisfaction mentally or physically.
And I also disagree with you that my view is selfish. I know that life is not always bright and happy, but I do believe, and this is my point, that everybody should have the ABILITY/CHANCE to see life as beautiful. Unfortunately, some people have a hard time doing so out of several reasons, and those people can be helped to find a different way to cope.
By the way, I don't want to use the word "victim" as I don't see them as these. They are people as everybody else, just people who struggle a little more than usual, but thy can seek help and they can be helped. Therefore "victims" is label that is attached to them.
Ich verstehe blumenkind, oder "flower child, aber was ist puste.Ist puste dein name?
My thoughts on this forum is honestly: "wow". It is kind of shocking to hear about people feeling this way about their own life or life in general. Just some of the stories I have read on the forums "I have had suicidual depression since I was 14. and am now 28". Is just absoultly shocking. It also hurts to hear that another fellow human being feels this way about him or herself.
I strongly believe that this subject should not be made fun of or debated in anyway. For the sake of those experiencing it maybe too much if in anyway this is criticized. However one begins to wonder of what maybe causing all of this. If it is indeed mental is there anyway we, as a soceity can change a persons thought about himself. This is one issue that should be truly dealt with more seriously.
The link is also a general public forum. There can be a slight chance that predators maybe using it to take advantage of people at their low point and being as a kind of guide or hope. Even though it is moderated the danger still lies. On the first page it says: “If you are in immediate danger of harming yourself or someone else, contact a friend, family member, counsellor, helpline, local hospital or the police for immediate help.”. Meaning that they offer help and allow people to open up but also let the indivdual know they are not the cure, or a form of therapy, but should seek professional help first.
In a way it is good to have forums like this. As some sucicidal people may be a bit socially off. So having a support forum such as this may actually help the individual in someway and feel that he has someone to turn to. As posted in one of the forums "Welcome :) !" This shows that members are supportive of the indivdual.
In closing it is trule shocking to find out people actually feel this way. An Individual should also be careful when posting emotions as intense as these online, and the forum, though grim, can be of some social support for them.
Also about the debate being changed to "the existence of God", My thoughts on that is that I am not the type to participate on a debate of that topic. Even though I know that in my class I am still debating on "abortion: pro life, or pro choice". My belief is that religon is one of the few topics out there that one cannont win over. For many years people have debated this even fought wars over such as the Crusades. It was intended to obtain the Christian Holy Land from the Muslims. Now many scholars and famous university professors such as Steven Runciman stated: "High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed.. the Holy War was nothing more than a long act of intolerance in the name of God". This means that the crusades was only a means for political and financial gain. It was also a reason to gain power and supremecy over that part of the world and the name of religon and God was just used a a front and cover up. Using God's name is a justification to go to war.
The name of God and religon have been used to justify many actions in history even the September 11 event. This is one reason why I do not think religon is debate-able. Because faith is something that cannot be physically proven. And Physically meaning adherent to ones senses. Eyes, touch, Smell, hear, Feel. And if it is not physical who is to stop one from using it for a cause whether just or unjust. This would be an interesting debate to see. I am curious how one side is to support solid evidence to prove a point.
I totally agree. The existence of God is undebateable. Its like debating the existence of ghosts, the after life or even UFO's. Nobody can prove one way or the other.As far the belief in God goes, I think it is just the belief that matters to the believers. How do you tell someone they do not believe in something. It just doesn't work as a debateable subject.
I wanted to bring up a general perception of people who are suicidal. People are constantly thinking that they just want attention. Isn't it sort of true that they do want some sort of attention? They want some sort of love and guidance in this wonderfulness we call life. If a person is just pretending to want to kill themselves, should we dismiss them and just call them attention seekers? Is that benefiting anyone at all. I think everyone should lend a helping hand to those in need. People who want attention are in need too. Everyone needs to be loved in some way, even criminals. Too many times, I feel like criminals are that way because they did not get the proper love and encouragement as a child. After taking and abnormal psychology class, I try not too judge people by their behavior. There has to be a reason a person is the way they are. Some people may be real jerks, but maybe that's how they had to act to survive in life or they've had their trust tested. I think that by understanding the whole concept and allowing ourselves to not take things too personally, we can help reduce certain conflicts. Also, guilt is one of the characteristics of depression. If people did not blame themselves so much, maybe the suicide rate will decrease in time.
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